Here's a Live Timeline / LiveAgenda for the 1/7/2020 Special Board meeting.
- by Jim Nelson
This is a LiveTimeline.
Everything in this document is a clickable link to a moment of video. It gets you close to the moment an Agenda item was reached, a question was asked, an answer provided or a barely grounded speculation was tossed into the air to see if it would float or thrown like a plate of soggy spaghetti against a wall to see if it would stick.
This is made possible by hosting the video on Youtube. B-Cam footage is edited in to eliminate most of the distracting camera motion you may have seen on the Livestream. The pans, the tilts, the zoomings in and out. With only one meeting room camera aimed toward the Board, those motions can't be avoided.
This transcription is incomplete. I handled as much as I could stand. Much remains to be transcribed.
FWIW, I've deleted the editorial asides. As on point as they may be, it is unnecessarily cruel to tell people the truth about themselves.
Planner Paul Lippens' presentation comparing the Synthesis, AR Brouwer, and Livonia Builders site maps begins here.
I greatly enhanced the Lippens segment with higher quality artwork and mattes.
Here's a portable copy. Pass it around. Watch your community leaders shuck and jive.
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1/7/2020 LiveTimeline: Northfield Township Board special meeting about the North Village Tract Housing bidders
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1/14/2020 Town Hall LiveTimeline
Invocation
Pledge
Roll Call
Motion to adopt the agenda
First Call to the Public
Board Member Response
- Dockett
- Dockett: When we bought the Park, it was called a Park. Then it was changed to North Park. Then all of a sudden it was changed to North Village.
- Otto: ?
- Chick:
- Beliger
- Chockley: critical mass blah blah blah
- Chockley: We are a representative government, so
- Chockley: And when we do a survey,
- Zelenock: We made a motion on 10/22/2019 The Board passed a motion to direct the Committee to ... asks if the Washtenaw Parks and Rec
- Chockley: No, not that I'm aware of.... You have? (Hearing Lippens, she gestures toward Lippens)
- Zelonock: Then, how come that's not a report in the Packet?
- Lippens: Uh... Um, I placed a call, an email, to xxx who's the Director
- Zelenock: So the other thing is; I actually came up with my own calculations on the proposal
- Zelenock: This is a great piece of property. I expect a great proposal.
- Dockett: When you say ask are you talking about a ballot?
- Manley
- Beliger
- Dockett
- When this building was built they borrowed three and a half million dollars that we didn't know anything about...
- Zelenock: I want to remind people that we are having a question and answer period at the January 14th meeting
Correspondence
Chockley: Moving on to the Agenda item
- Lippens
- Zelenock ?
- Lippens well...
- Zelenock: no, i just interpreted and looked at it and said, well what does this really mean to me?
- Lippens: Well, when it was set up.... bla bla bla...
- Lippens: Many people didn't award any extra points
- Zelenock
- Otto: trial balloons an attempt to deny the score was a score. Claims she looks at it as a basis for negotiating a better deal. Later in the meeting reveals the lie when Beliger's motion to sell, in the absence of all legal opinion, goes as far around the bend as it can go
- Chick: These people need to understand
- Lippens
- Slide - Synthesis Plan
- Slide - Synthesis Plan site map
- Lippens: We have the Synthesis plan here. The synthesis plan shows a substantially greater amount of land dedicated to Park
- Lippens: and I think simply the reason why ... is the plan shows higher density development
- Lippens: But it also includes many elements that were desireable as far as amenities
- Lippens: This is a zoom in, some images of how that would look
- Slidel Livonia Builders site map
- 46m18s
- slide: This is the AR Brouwer site map
- Lippens: I was asked about conversations with Washtenaw County
- Lippens: In talking with Mr. Vaughn about this, certainly Washtenaw County is supportive of public space
- Lippens: and at least Mr. Vaughn felt that they would be able to help and be supportive of it
- Lippens: but he said, the Director said he would probably be most able to help with from a County perspective
- Lippens: would be funding for a trail project because the County has funding that is dedicated towards trails.
- Lippens: and they said that they can both fund feasibility studies as well as engineering design and then construction.\
- Lippens: Those projects can be applied for in August.
- Lippens: And certainly moving forward on site development would not preclude the Township from working
- Lippens: from working to receive a Washtenaw County partnership to develop the trail component and I
- Lippens: and I shared with him some of the larger visions to connect possibly to the railroad track...
- Lippens: but even the idea of connecting the Barker Road area, straight to the lake, and straight to this new public park
- Lippens: he felt we would score very strongly in getting County support for that
- Lippens: I also mentioned that, you know, there's potential in developing this lakefront park to expand it and do potentially acquisitions
- Lippens: to some of the adjacent sites and that would be done, likely, through the MDNR's Natural Resources Trust Fund if the Township chooses to pursue acquisition grants
- Lippens: and Mr. Vaughn said of course that he felt his department could be supportive and provide letters of support should the Township want to pursue that.
- Lippens: So, all in all the Board should know that during this process we have met with also the Washtenaw County Drain Commission
- Lippens: I don't know is they're called that, Commission of Water Resources
- Lippens: And they were helping us work through with how to drain the site. So the County has been a good partner throughout the process
- Lippens: Um, I believe that the Parks Department will be a valuable asset, um, you know, going forward, and I certainly think, um, engaging them is a good suggestion by the Board, and we'll continue to do that.
- Lippens: I can take question
- Lippens: as you know, as I mentioned, where we are in the process
Belliger: Can I make a motion to entertain negotiations with Livonia Builders with a counter offer of 1.1 million?
- 53m48s
- Chockley seconds Belliger's [[[idiotic, bargaining position destroying]]] motion.
- Chockley: we don't have an attorney...
- 54m33s
- Chockley: And then, um, how much of the land is included
- Lippens:
- Manley: Mr Aynes, any comment?
- Aynes: Mr Burns...
- Chockley: So we've a motion for 1.1 Million dollars; how do other board members feel about that amount for the acreage?
- [[[The acreage? - So it's not even a park at this point?]]]
- Dockett: I'm not for it but the [unintelligible] price is 1.75. It's the lowest it should be. But I'm not voting for it anyway. Thank you.
- 59m09s
- Chockley: are you talking about all 23 acres, mr. Dockett?
- Dockett: No, I'm talking about the 18
- Lippens: the motion...
- Otto: Does it come from the 18.5?
- Otto: Do we take half an acre off the 18 for the commercial property?
- Otto: The way I read it, it reads that we're cutting into the 5 acres
- Otto: That's the 400 square feet.. (huh!?)
- Lippens: I suppose
- Otto: That we're taking out...
- 62m53s
- Zelenock: We could use our attorney here. I don't think we negotiate price at a meeting...
- BCam reoriented. must straighten
- Lippens: That was the, the, what Mr. Burns told us
- Aynes on open session discussion of prices, selling property vs buying property
- Zelnock: I have a question, Miss Beliger and Miss Chockley, you came up with 1.1Million. How did you reach that number?
- Chockley: It was what the subcommittee had recommended
- Zelenock: How did they reach that, Mr...
- Zelenock: Cause we were supposed to get an appraisal, an official appraisal, as is and when fully built out
- 65m45s
- Aynes: I had sent an email...
- Aynes: the only thing I asked you for previously is when you had a desire to get a number very quickly - ( this statement says it all.)
- Lippens: So, in terms of the value question and how the committee came up with the
- Dockett: Can we ask some questions please?
- Manley: If you could pull that slide back up, where is the retention pond?
- Lippens: There is a space on this plan for a pond
- Dockett: I think that the question Jackie asked.
- Dockett: You know we're asking $275,000 for one acre on Barker
- Chockley, People can put a price on things. I mean,
- Chick: That piece was trying to be sold for 2, 3, 4 million dollars for twenty years
- Chockley: but it included a price that we perhaps would like to discuss in closed session, so
- Beliger: We can't discuss this in closed session
- Zelenock: You just told us we couldn't do that...
- Chockley: Yes we can discuss the price in closed session
- Zelenock: No
- Chockley: [[[at sea, over her head, and lost.]]]
- Lippens:
- Zelenock: I have some other questions
- Lippens: Some context
- Lippens: We wanna be able to tell them something
- Aynes: If I could also comment
- Zelenock: Can we make? I'd like to make an amendment to remove the price of 1.1 million
- 76m56s
- Manley: So if we remove the price then what's the plan? Whowho figures it out?
- Zelenock: Well, I think to me, one motion would be
- Zelenock: I'd just like to separate the two, personally
- 78m13s
- Chockley: So we have a motion to remove the price from the original motion
- Chick: Can I just hear the original motion
- Chockley: , The original motion was to work with Livonia Builders to,
- Chockley: and, uh, ask for 1.1 million dollars
- Beliger: In a nutshell that's the motion
- Beliger: to move forward with Livonia Builders, negotiate with them,
- Beliger: and ask at [unintelligible] and put our price at 1 point 1. to begin negotiations
- 78m52s
- 79m02s
- Chockley: Let's do a role call
- Chockley: That passes 5:2, Beliger & Dockett voted No
- So now, the motion is to move forward with Livonia Builders
- Beliger: That's my motion, yes
- Roll Call
- Chockley: Thank you. That passes, 5:2
- Zelenock: Again, I think we need, we needed a better first proposal
- Zelenock: That's why I voted no. If you look at the Livonia Builders compared to the synthesis plan, to me it's not even close
- Zelenock: as far as the open space, the density - I'm for higher density and open space, so...
- Zelenock: And I think people should come forth with their best proposals and I think this is their best proposal
- Beliger: Can I make another motion?
- Beliger: I make a motion to counter Livonia Builders' of? 1.1 Million
- 80m43s
- 80m43s
- Otto: What I would like to do ....
- Chockley: And it might only be a quarter of an acre
- Zelenock: Miss Otto you're talking about that one piece
- Beliger: Are you wanting to revise the resolution to 5.5 acre minimum?
- Otto: No
- Otto: The five acre minimum is fine
- Beliger: Offer 18 acres?
- Zelenock: I have another question. Where is the public parking going to be?
- Chockley: Yeah, there is not a lot on that. It would be in the public park. So that would be something that we would have to deal with.
- Zelenock: So, Again you're taking our 5 acre minimum park
- Zelenock: and we're going to put parking where?
- Beliger: There's also the [unintelligible]
- Zelenock: I'm just asking
- 84m38s
- Zelenock: I don't know so tell me where the public park would be
- Beliger: How about... What about this part here?
- The question is, with this design, I'm just asking, show me where the public parking is
- I know, but with what we see here now, I'm just saying, where is the public parking?
- 85m02s
- Zelenock: Help me out. You can point, can't you?
- Chockley: There's a little strip there by the Post Office...
- Zelenock: So, do we have any
- Zelenock: Just an estimate of how many that is
- Is that twenty spaces?
- Twenty-five?
- Chockley: Ya know...
- Zelenock: So I'd like to identify the public parking
- Zelenock: And the amount of spaces
- Chockley: I'd like to see an actual design of the landscape, you know, someone who's gonna design our park
- Chockley: I would like them to decide how much parking we need
- Zelenock: I know, but how much do we have?
- Zelenock: We have zero, so
- 86m18s
- Zelenock: It's five acres of a park but some of that is going to be parking and we just don't know how much
- Lippens: Which is access
- Chockley: Will Mr. Veary (?) need access off of Main Street? My understanding is he will for this development.
- Chockley: So ther will be a road coming in off of Main Street.
- 87m33s
- Lippens: Yeah, the circulation system is part of the park
- 90m05s
- Zelenock: So my understanding on what you're saying is they will be using Township property to get access to their property and so there will either be an easement or we're selling it to them
- Lippens: We are not selling it to them. There would be qan easement. [This is a misrepresentation, since nothing has been agreed]
- Lippens: And we would have to negotiate that easement with them as well.
- Lippens: But basically, the Township is proposing to retain that land
- 90m44s
- Zelenock: So, I have another question. So, based on this proposal,
- How much commercial development does that leave? How much property does that leave for commercial development?
- Lippens: Yeah, two pieces, assuming that one of them is split from the larger piece
- Zelenock: So that's 4,000 square feet for Commercial Development
- Zelenock: I mean,
- Zelenock: So can someone answer that question of how much commercial development property does that leave?
- Lippens: It's basically two sites.
- Zelenock: Two sites?
- Zelenock: And I thought they were 100 by 40
- Zelenock: I thought that's what they said
- 91m36s
- Zelenock: Yeah, isn't it 100 by 40?
- Chockley: [clueless] Are you talking about the building or the actual lot?
- Zelenock: The lots
- Chockley: [still clueless] You think 40 by 100? That's really small.
- Lippens: So, the synthesis plan actually showed three sites
- Lippens: with less of the frontage area being dedicated to parks
- Lippens: They proposed a Town Green
- Lippens: and then much of the park area to be in passive recreation space or central lawn
- Lippens: and that this would be more of an urban park with two development sites on either end
- Lippens: You can see this style of town green in you know hamlets
- Lippens: and small cities and villages in southeast Michigan
- Lippens: One example of a small town green like this is in downtown Plymouth [bullshit]
- Lippens: Which has obviously commercial around it and then a smaller, very functional Town green space
- Dockett: Can you show us the ingress and egress on that map?
- Lippens: This one?
- Dockett: And none of that takes up the park, or it does?
- Lippens: This is the synthesis plan
- Chockley: And this was adopted by the Planning Commission and the Board as part of the Master Plan
- Beliger:
- 93m17s
- 93m26s
- Dockett: Well, that has to be done by the County
- Dockett: You can't get a driveway without the County's permits. So, they're the ones that should be involved in this
- Dockett: How do you know what kind of anchorage you're gonna get?
- 94m06s
- 94m22s
- 94m39s
- Zelenock: I am concerned that we have not left enough property for commercial development
- Zelenocl: That we are putting 90 units
- Zelenock: building a park for them
- Zelenock: and we say that we want more foot traffic
- Zelenock: and we get more foot traffic
- Zelenock: Where are the people gonna go to reap the benefits of having more people in their downtown?
- 96m05s
- Chick: We were looking for some kind of a berm or some kind of separation from the park to the houses
- 98m08s
- Chockley: That's something that I'm sure Mr. Veary will want to do
- Lippens stares vaguely heavenward.
- Chockley: As far as conditions of sale...
- Zelenock: Again basically he's making us build a park for his ninety residences
- Otto: Waaal, when we had, the Brouwer didn't have a park at all
- Zelenock: We should be able to do whatever we want with our money
- Otto: When we had uh the Brouwer group doing they were doing it for 1.1
- Otto: and they weren't doing the park at all
- Dockett: It wasn't a good deal
- Zelenock: I just think that we should do what we want with our money
- Zelenock: If we want to put it in the park, we do. If we don't we don't.
- Zelenock: It's the taxpayers' money.
- Zelenock: I don't think we should go into an agreement where it says you must build me and my residents a park.
- Chockley: Part of us having those funds would be to have them be match funds for DNR grants
- 100m34s
- Beliger: I kinda see it as ...
- Dockett: But we shouldn't be in partnership with a builder
- Zelenock: Right
- Beliger: We're not partnering with them ??????????????
- Zelenock: Yeah you are
- Beliger: We are not partnering with them
- Zelenock: And do understand that [Former Township Attorney] Burns took this out of the Purchase Agreement and they [the Builder] have put it back in
- 101m27s
- And then do we want to specify a price?
- Chockley: Or do we wanna let Mr. Lippens, Mr. Aynes, and our new Attorney negotiate something?
- Chockley: closer to what it would be worth...
- 102m14s
- Zelenock: I think they should negotiate it [unintelligible] then come back to the Board
- 102m20s
- Lippens: So, procedurally
- DOckett: Mr. Burns is not our attorney any longer
- Chockley: But he did
- Otto: That's all we have at this point
- Otto: I think to that, that instead of saying a price, is just to say that
- Otto: is just to say that, um, that we're counteroffering, and leave it at that
- Beliger: Yeah, but do we need a number? to counteroffer? Is that?
- Otto: Do we need a number?
- Dockett: The lowest possible price is one point seven five
- Let's make a motion Mr Dockett....We'll make a counter offer of one point seven five million dollars
- Dockett: I don't want to have to vote yes on any of this
- 104m24s
- Otto: We have our list. What does the list read and make a motion with that
- Otto: that these need to be added to the
- Chockley: We have the Barker Road access, the non motorized trail, remove the Main Street Parcel,
- Chockley: sell 18 acres, not 18 and a half, um
- hockley: We need to make an agreement about the private road, an access agreement about the private road
- Chockley: um, we need some sort of berm to delineate the homes from the main park
- Chockley: and we had a price of 1.1 million
- Zelenock: Well, let's leave the price out if we can, madame chair, and get these things done
- Otto: I would say that these would have to be um
- Otto: brought into a new proposal
- 105m26s
- Manley: If he's listening to this meeting it's clear what we want, whether we offer it or not
- Beliger: I can't hear you
- Manley: I said if he's listening to this meeting it's clear what we want
- Chockley: at least -
- Chockley: We're voting on the Barker Road access, the non motorized trail
- Chockley: Removing the Main Street parcels, selling 18 acres
- Chockley: and um we would like an access agreement for the private roads
- Chockley: and we're requiring a delineation or a berm
- Dockett: Roll call vote please
- Chockley: Thank you. That passes 5 to 2
- Chockley: Well, we got that far.
- Chockley: Now what?
- Lippens: So...
- Lippens: My question is, I'm uh, I still think uh if I go to Livonia Builders, on behalf of the Board and I say, these are the actions that were taken, you haven't made any decision on the offer that they've provided
- Lippens: Maybe you just reject it. If you're not willing to counter offer...
Beliger: I can make the motion. I move to reject the current offer from Livonia Builders
- Beliger: Motion to reject the offer by Livonia Builders and request another one
- 108m30s
- hockley: That passes 6:1 Zelenock : No
- Lippens: Yeah, I ....
Beliger: I move that we ask for a response from Livonia Builders by January 17th
- Yes - 5:2 Zelenock No, Dockett No,
- Chockley asks Aynes to report on his progress or lack of progress in Attorney search
- Dockett and Zelenock shout out, That's not on the Agenda
- Zelenock: I requested it to be on the Agenda and I was told it wouldn't be on the Agenda
- Chockley: Can you send an email to the Board?
2nd Call to the Public
Board Member Comments
- Chockley: Mr. Dockett
- Beliger
- Dockett:
- Zelenock
- Manley
- Otto
- Chick
- Chockley: I have to reiterate. The ability to capture the increase in the taxable value blah blah blah
